After my private Gmail was leaked somewhere, I’ve started to receive an enormous amount of spam that came through into my inbox, which made me switch to Proton and a self-hosted SimpleLogin setup.
So I decided, I might as well dirch Google entirely, for private and work-related stuff.
While Proton already covers Mail and Calendar, I’m in search of alternatives for the following services to replace.
Meet: I like the idea of starting a quick meeting by simply sending a link to a customer, who can join instantly. What would be an equivalent software to do that? I tried Mattermost, but it seems more like a Slack alternative, with invites, etc. and is overkill for my case. Revolt chat looks like a Discord alternative.
Drive: In short, If possible, I’d prefer one consolidated place to access and edit files. Docs, Excel, PDFs, pictures, videos, etc… Is Nextcloud really the only option here, with the corresponding plugins for onlyoffice and memories (photos)? I tried running thst on an intel nuc, and it’s slow as hell.
I’ve talked mad shit about Nextcloud repeatedly. That said, I keep trying it. Almost compelled to make it work for me. This stubbornness lead me to NextcloudPi. And I don’t know what they do to that image/build, but it works very well on my Pi 4 w/4GB. Then I tried it in a docker container on my main server and it ran like trash again. So, ymmv? Easy enough to stand it up for a test though.
I’m a huge fan of Seafile. It’s the best Google drive/Dropbox replacement, imo. It does support Collabora or Open Office integration as well, but I can’t get that to work. Take that as a sign of me still learning rather than a slight against the product. I will say though, their documentation needs work. It’s quite a mess.
Hi! I am also looking for an alternative to Google Docs more oriented to LibreOffice. You said you tried Collabora for ARM64 on Nextcloud, Docker or both?
I have NextcloudPi image running on a Pi 4 with a CODE server and Nextcloud Office both installed from the Nextcloud “app store”. This is working great for office type docs.
I will say I tried to do the same with Nextcloud docker images from linuxserver.io as well as the official AIO image and could not get the Office function to work. Both of those ran horribly on my older server too, so I gave up on them. NextcloudPi seems to be highly optimized and running well on the Pi 4.
I think nextcloud suffers more from carrying along legacy code rather than blaming it on php. There’s tons of stuff written in php that performs well.
It’s definitely not the right tool for every job, but it’s also not the wrong tool for every job. Which goes for most programming languages. I’ve seen it work fine on high traffic environments. It also carries a legacy reputation from php 5 and before. I haven’t kept up with it much in the last few years though.
Which nextcloud tasks do you think php is unsuited for? (Genuine question)
I mentioned it in another topic regarding kbin, which is also written in PHP.
If you run a node/go/rust server and you hit the endpoint /hello which returns a simple “hello world”, they will just return that. PHP however, has to initialize and execute the whole framework stuff, before returning a simple “hello world”.
So there’s definitely some overhead, which to some degree can be limited by using caching like redis, etc.
I can follow that. I think most applications that keep running ( like a go webserver) are more likely to cache certain information in memory, while in PHP you’re more inclined to have a linear approach to the development. As in “this is all the things i need to bootstrap, fetch and get and run before I can answer the query”.
As a result the fetching of certain information wouldn’t be cached by default and over time that might start adding up. The base overhead of the framework should be minimal.
You ( nextcloud ) are also subject to whoever is writing plugins. Is nextcloud slow because it is slow, or because the 20 plugins people install aren’t doing any caching and a single page load is running 50 queries? This would be unrelated to NC, but I have no idea if there’s any plugin validation done.
Then again, I could be talking completely out of my ass. I haven’t done much with NC except install it on my RPI4 and be a bit discontent with its performance. At the same time the browser experience on the RPI was also a bit disappointing so I never went in depth as to why it wasn’t performing very well. I assumed it was too heavy for the PI. This was 4 years ago mind you.
My main experience with frameworks like Laravel and symfony is that they’re pretty low overhead. But the overhead is there ( even if it is only 40ms ).
The main framework overhead would be negligible, but if you’re dynamically building the menu on every request using db queries it’ll quickly not become negligible
There are libraries which allow you to do stuff async in PHP ( https://github.com/amphp/amp ). It’s not all async by default like Javascript. A lot of common corporate languages right now are synchronous rather than asynchronous like python, java, c#, … By default, but allow you to run asynchronous code.
It all has their place. I’m not saying making it async won’t improve some of the issues. Running a program that does 15 async processes might cause some issues on smaller systems like RPIs that don’t have a lot or compute capacity like a laptop/desktop with 20 cores.
Having said that. I can’t back that up at all :D.
Thanks for your insights though. I appreciate the civil discussion :)
but also, most of these languages run a compiled executable, while PHP has to go through a parser. java is another exception with it’s vm, but you get my point.
so, all in all… PHP has overhead, in many ways … sure it might be negligible (gosh, I always have to look up the spelling of this word) in some situation, but in other it adds up so much that it makes it unsuitable for the task.
yeah, I like these type of convos where there’s no right or wrong… just "yes, but…"s
They don’t. Web only and considerable heavier and harder to get running than FileBrowser.
Can I use CryptPad on mobile?
CryptPad is engineered to work as well as possible on small screens. Depending on your device performance it should be possible to use CryptPad on mobile. Work to make CryptPad more responsive was undertaken in 2020, if you notice areas that need improvement in this regard, please contact Support or submit an issue on Github.
Fastmail.com is excellent if you are considering Protonmail. Excellent performance, has a drive function and it sits somewhere between Google and proton in the privacy department.
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Resources:
selfh.st Newsletter and index of selfhosted software and apps
https://alternativeto.net/software/bigbluebutton/?license=opensource https://alternativeto.net/software/nextcloud/
Alternative too has great suggestions to get started.
I’m a bigbluebutton fan, a friend of mine uses whereby and it works great, with absolutely no registration needed. https://alternativeto.net/software/appear-in/about/
Next cloud/own cloud is great
I’ve migrated to tutanota for email/calendar. I miss Google calendar though.
I’ve talked mad shit about Nextcloud repeatedly. That said, I keep trying it. Almost compelled to make it work for me. This stubbornness lead me to NextcloudPi. And I don’t know what they do to that image/build, but it works very well on my Pi 4 w/4GB. Then I tried it in a docker container on my main server and it ran like trash again. So, ymmv? Easy enough to stand it up for a test though.
I’m a huge fan of Seafile. It’s the best Google drive/Dropbox replacement, imo. It does support Collabora or Open Office integration as well, but I can’t get that to work. Take that as a sign of me still learning rather than a slight against the product. I will say though, their documentation needs work. It’s quite a mess.
Hi! I am also looking for an alternative to Google Docs more oriented to LibreOffice. You said you tried Collabora for ARM64 on Nextcloud, Docker or both?
I have NextcloudPi image running on a Pi 4 with a CODE server and Nextcloud Office both installed from the Nextcloud “app store”. This is working great for office type docs.
I will say I tried to do the same with Nextcloud docker images from linuxserver.io as well as the official AIO image and could not get the Office function to work. Both of those ran horribly on my older server too, so I gave up on them. NextcloudPi seems to be highly optimized and running well on the Pi 4.
Thanks!
Yeah… NC is really bad. I like the idea of the project, but the stack they chose to write it in, PHP, is just not suitable for such tasks
I think nextcloud suffers more from carrying along legacy code rather than blaming it on php. There’s tons of stuff written in php that performs well.
It’s definitely not the right tool for every job, but it’s also not the wrong tool for every job. Which goes for most programming languages. I’ve seen it work fine on high traffic environments. It also carries a legacy reputation from php 5 and before. I haven’t kept up with it much in the last few years though.
Which nextcloud tasks do you think php is unsuited for? (Genuine question)
I mentioned it in another topic regarding kbin, which is also written in PHP.
If you run a node/go/rust server and you hit the endpoint
/hellowhich returns a simple “hello world”, they will just return that. PHP however, has to initialize and execute the whole framework stuff, before returning a simple “hello world”.So there’s definitely some overhead, which to some degree can be limited by using caching like redis, etc.
I can follow that. I think most applications that keep running ( like a go webserver) are more likely to cache certain information in memory, while in PHP you’re more inclined to have a linear approach to the development. As in “this is all the things i need to bootstrap, fetch and get and run before I can answer the query”.
As a result the fetching of certain information wouldn’t be cached by default and over time that might start adding up. The base overhead of the framework should be minimal.
You ( nextcloud ) are also subject to whoever is writing plugins. Is nextcloud slow because it is slow, or because the 20 plugins people install aren’t doing any caching and a single page load is running 50 queries? This would be unrelated to NC, but I have no idea if there’s any plugin validation done.
Then again, I could be talking completely out of my ass. I haven’t done much with NC except install it on my RPI4 and be a bit discontent with its performance. At the same time the browser experience on the RPI was also a bit disappointing so I never went in depth as to why it wasn’t performing very well. I assumed it was too heavy for the PI. This was 4 years ago mind you.
My main experience with frameworks like Laravel and symfony is that they’re pretty low overhead. But the overhead is there ( even if it is only 40ms ).
The main framework overhead would be negligible, but if you’re dynamically building the menu on every request using db queries it’ll quickly not become negligible
And what I forgot to mention, there’s the fact that it’s not async. So it adds up even more to the delay when fetching stuff.
There are libraries which allow you to do stuff async in PHP ( https://github.com/amphp/amp ). It’s not all async by default like Javascript. A lot of common corporate languages right now are synchronous rather than asynchronous like python, java, c#, … By default, but allow you to run asynchronous code.
It all has their place. I’m not saying making it async won’t improve some of the issues. Running a program that does 15 async processes might cause some issues on smaller systems like RPIs that don’t have a lot or compute capacity like a laptop/desktop with 20 cores.
Having said that. I can’t back that up at all :D.
Thanks for your insights though. I appreciate the civil discussion :)
but also, most of these languages run a compiled executable, while PHP has to go through a parser. java is another exception with it’s vm, but you get my point.
so, all in all… PHP has overhead, in many ways … sure it might be negligible (gosh, I always have to look up the spelling of this word) in some situation, but in other it adds up so much that it makes it unsuitable for the task.
yeah, I like these type of convos where there’s no right or wrong… just "yes, but…"s
As you said, NextCloud is slow, it is also buggy https://lemmy.world/comment/346174. Better hardware won’t make it better.
As for suggestions you should checkout FileBrowser as it is fast, reliable and easy to use. An OnlyOffice integration is coming.
To replace meet, https://jitsi.org/. They even have a browser based solution that allows you to create quick meets: https://meet.jit.si/
Filebrowser looks even nicer than cryptopad, and I think folders could probably be symlinked to immich, etc.
Will definitely keep an eye on it. Thx
Edit: Oh, just saw it’s web-only :-(
Yes they can. I’ve been doing that for a long time. If you combine with Syncthing and Samba (for iOS) you also get a very nice cloud solution.
Isn’t cryptopad web as well? lol
I don’t know much about cryptpad. Someone just mentioned it, and I hoped it had an app as well… lol
They don’t. Web only and considerable heavier and harder to get running than FileBrowser.
https://docs.cryptpad.org/en/FAQ.html
Fastmail.com is excellent if you are considering Protonmail. Excellent performance, has a drive function and it sits somewhere between Google and proton in the privacy department.
I’ve already switched to protonmail. And tried skiff before that, which I didn’t like that much.
I might give fastmail a try. Thx
Actually… I think I like fastmail