My Linksys router died this morning - fortunately, I had a spare Netgear one laying around, but manually replacing all DHCP reservations (security cameras, user devices, network devices, specific IoT devices) and port forwarding options was a tedious pain. I needed a quick solution; my job is remote, so I factory reset the Netgear (I wasn’t sure what settings were already on it) and applied the most important settings to get the job done.
I’m looking for recommendations for either a more mature setup, backup solution, or another solution. Currently, my internet is provided from an AT&T ONT, which has almost everything disabled (DHCP included), and was passing through to my Linksys router. This acted as the router and DHCP server, and provided a direct connection to an 8-port switch, which split off into devices, 2 more routers acting as access points (one for the other side of the house, one for the separated garage, DHCP disabled on both).
If going the route of a backup solution, is it feasible to install OpenWRT on all of my devices, with the expectation that I can do some sort of automated backups of all settings and configurations, and restore in case of a router dying?
If going the route of a smarter solution, I’m not sure what to consider, so I’d love to hear some input. I think having so many devices using DHCP reservations might not be the way to go, but it’s the best way I’ve been able to provide organization and structure to my growing collection of network devices.
If going with a more mature setup, I’m not sure what to consider for a fair ballpark budget / group of devices for a home network. I’ve been eyeing the Ubiquiti Cloud Gateway + 3 APs for a while (to replace my current 1 router / 2 routers-in-AP-mode setup), but am wondering if the selfhosted community has any better recommendations.
I’m happy to provide more information - I understand that selfhosting / home network setup is not a one-size-fits-all.
Edit: Forgot to mention! Another minor gripe I have is that my current 1 router / 2 routers-as-AP solution isn’t meshed, so my devices have to be aware of all 3 networks as I walk across my property. It’s a pain that I know can be solved with buying dedicated access points (…right?), but I’d like to know other’s experiences with this, either with OpenWRT, or other network solutions!
Edit 2: Thanks for the suggestions and discussion everybody, I appreciate hearing everybody’s recommendations and different approaches. I think I’m leaning towards the Ubiquiti UCG Ultra and a few Ubiquiti APs, they seem to cover my needs well. If in a few years that bites me in the ass, I think my next choices will be Mikrotik, OPNsense, or OpenWRT.
If going the route of a backup solution, is it feasible to install OpenWRT on all of my devices, with the expectation that I can do some sort of automated backups of all settings and configurations, and restore in case of a router dying?
My two cents: use a “full” computer as your router (with either something like OPNsense or any “regular” linux distro if you don’t need the GUI) and OpenWRT on your access points.
Unless you use the GUI and backup/restore the configuration (as you would with proprietary firmwares), OpenWRT is frankly a pain to configure and deploy. At the moment I’m building custom images for all my devices, but (next time™) I’m gonna ditch all that, get an x86 router and just manually manage OpenWRT on my wifi APs (I only have two and they both have the same relatively straightforward config).
It’s a pain that I know can be solved with buying dedicated access points (…right?)
Routers and access points are just computers with network interfaces (there may be level-2-only APs, but honestly I’ve never heard of any)… most probably your issue is that the firmware of your “routers as access points” doesn’t want to be configured as a dumb AP.
Good points. It’s strange to me to think of routers and APs as just computers, or things that can be run off of a mini-PC or some kind of raspberry pi, but it seems like it’s entirely feasible to build up your network with those.
If you’re looking for a more mature networking setup, I would definitely recommend splitting up your router, switch and AP duties into separate devices. It gives you the most flexibility for when you want to tinker or change things.
For a main router setup, I would recommend OpnSense. It’s has a cloud backup feature which allows you to automatically backup the configuration to a Google Drive xml file whenever it is changed.
The XML config file stores all your leases so you don’t have to worry about reassigning DHCP reservations. If you load the config onto a new system, like for an upgrade or if the router hardware fails, usually you just have to change the interface mappings and you’re good to go.
As far as APs/switches, I would recommend Unifi or Mikrotik. Unifi has a fancy dashboard you can use to adopt new equipment and restore/change configs from, but I find Mikrotik easier and simpler to backup and I like that i dont have to host a controller to make config changes.
Yeah, I definitely agree with splitting it up. Until lately, I haven’t been able to justify the cost of replacing my whole setup. But at the rate that my routers/routers-as-APs seem to die (maybe one every 18 months), it’s enough of a nuisance that I’ll just spend some money and do it the “right” way
I took a quick read of the comments and I apologize in advance if this has been suggested already.
I use a self hosted DNS server (AdGuardHome) I was using TechnitiumDNS for a long while, but moved over to the other recently so I could do some more blocking as needed (adult special needs house dweller sometimes needs limited internet). It also acts as a DHCP Server so it takes the role of both the DHCP assignments away from the router. As it so happens, this week, I got to experience the benefit of having this setup live when my main router also went down, I was able to switch to a spare router (My ISP provided one) and all I had to do was turn the DHCP off and optionally point the DNS To my AdGuardHome address, set the SSID’s up and I was in business. All of my devices happily reconnected and grabbed their assigned IP’s.
In short, if you have a spare computer, SBC such as a raspberry PI or whatnot, you can easily host something like that and not have to worry about setting those again.
I’m spoiled now. I prefer ubiquiti equipment for my network, security camera, and even door access.
However, if you prefer completely open source I can recommend opnsense and openwrt. Personally I prefer a single point of configuration… So all ubiquiti for me… It makes it easy to restore a complete network configuration as you are discovering is a pain.
Maybe start with the new cloud gateway max as a router if you are interested.
I have a closet full of old routers (including Linksys), extenders, and switches to be able to handle dead spots. They all sucked. Then I heard about mesh routers when they first came out. Tried two, saw that they worked well, and got a third one. A few months later, a new ISP showed up in our neighborhood with unmetered Gig fiber and I happily drop-kicked Comcast to the curb. It was gratifying that the fiber connection came with a single mesh device of the same brand I already had. Since then, I’ve upgraded to the next-gen routers, and gotten a few smaller ‘wall-wart’ units for extending the range outdoors.
I don’t really have to fuss with configurations like I had to before. It’s amazing how much of a time drain it was to go screw around with settings when a new device came in that didn’t work, or to replace a router when one died. I haven’t had to do anything in years. Every once in a while, I go set up a DHCP reservation but that’s it. The firmware updates auto-install while everyone’s asleep and I get pretty decent bandwidth in places I had constant dropoffs. When I switched out the actual routers to the new gen, the whole thing took 10m and the whole network was down for maybe 2m while the new ones booted up. No end devices had to be modified or restarted.
Where the fiber comes in, there’s a single router node, with two Ethernet ports. One goes to the fiber ONT, the other to a 10-port gig switch where it feeds the rest of wired setups. Elsewhere, the farthest mesh unit has no incoming physical connection, but a small wired switch connected to other wired devices near there. I didn’t have to make any router configuration settings to make this work. Just plugged it all in. Common devices go on the main network, and janky IOT devices (and visitors) go on the guest network.
For external access for self-hosting, you can take a domain name and set up a free Cloudflare tunnel to access your in-home services remotely. Pay Cloudflare a fee and you get extra rules-based access control. The router also has a premium service where it comes with a family bundle of security software. One other thing I like is that the mobile app sends a notification whenever a new device joins the network, so if I see one I don’t recognize, I can block them. Hasn’t happened yet, but if it does, I’ll know to go rotate the wifi passwords.
Anyway, highly recommend mesh routers. I happened to get Eeros (before they were acquired) but there are a few other brands around. Some people don’t like that Amazon bought eero, but they appear to be left to run as an independent outfit. It has been pretty solid so far.
P.S. A friend with a more complicated setup than mine got Ubiquitis. It’s anecdotal, but he recently asked about switching away and I told him pretty much what I’ve written here. YMMV.
Edit: checked back with friend. He said he was very happy with his Ubiquiti gear. I mixed up his review from years ago with another friend’s networking setup.
Sounds like we have similar experiences, I’m definitely looking at mesh. I’m tired of having multiple networks across the house! I’m definitely looking at separating IoT and guests to their own VLAN, which I understand Ubiquiti devices are really good at facilitating. Having notifications for new devices is a really nice feature that I never really thought about. Would definitely be nice to have tracking for that
I’m going to suggest something that I don’t see anyone else talking about here. Synology, the company mostly known for the NAS devices, makes some surprisingly good routers as well. I’ve got 2 of their RT2600ac and 3 of their MR220AC mesh units. Their configuration software is unlike anything I’ve used by any other brand. It a web based interface that looks like a variant of desktop linux. Configuring it feels like configuring an actual computer.
I had originally purchased these for my business, an esports center, but after the business closed a few years ago I kept the hardware and used them in my home. They are so much better than any other consumer networking hardware I’ve tried from DLink, Linksys, and Asus.
They have newer models out that support AX wifi. But I haven’t felt the need to upgrade yet. A few notes though. Their hardware does not necessarily support every cutting edge feature. No wifi 7 as far as I know for instance. They seem to sit about 2-3 years behind the absolute latest, but the trade off seems to be stability and reliability.
In my home, I have every unit physically hardwired back to my server rack in my basement. So while it does support mesh over wifi, I’ve opted to run ethernet to every room in my house. My general rule is anything that can be wired, should be wired. We even have a disconnected shed/workshop which I trenched and buried a cable out to so that I’d have a wired access point out there.
I rarely see anyone mention Synology’s routers, but I think they are worth consideration.
Unifi gear is super great value-wise. Their support is lacking, but their equipment is pretty easy to deal with.
UCG is great and cheap.
UDM Pro is more flexible / future proof but also more expensive. (you get POE, and access to the rest of their suite, but that access also comes with some hardware lockin)
They don’t do custom DNS, so a couple of PIE holes or a DNS service are prudent.
Agreed. After 4 years on PFSense, and that becoming basically a second job, I pulled the trigger and got a Unifi USG-Ultra, and my life is now all rainbows and unicorns.
That’s seems to be what I keep coming back to over the past few days. The UCG Ultra looks perfect for what I need - I don’t want a router and AP in one device, nor do I need any of the security software that other Unifi devices seem to have - I run those separately. I think the UI and dashboards are what are really pushing me towards Ubiquiti, they look really great for displaying the info I want to see
It is pretty intuitive and just works. I do have an issue where I can’t access my services on ProxMox and UnRaid via URL (only via IP) when I have the work profile enabled in that network from the local network (works via internet from outside or through a VPN though), but it does work is the profile is disabled. Other than that, everything just works and is super easy to setup and configure.
This is what I did after running consumer Linksys and ASUS routers, including with OpenWRT.
I moved to a Unifi setup and haven’t had any issues. I can manage it remotely if I need to, like another household member needs something changed or fixed. I’ve never had to restart it to fix an issue, it just works.
Easy upgrades without having to replace the entire setup and move settings over manually. Especially easy wireless upgrades, almost just plug and play replacing the old access point antenna.
And if you need just a small setup and you run a home server you can run the management software on there instead of something like their dedicated Cloud Key device.
BTW you CAN do DNS in a unifi gateway. It just requires making dnsmasq entries through shell. Perfect solution? No. But it gets you there with no additional hardware.
I run Opnsense on a Proxmox VM (I followed this guide). I’m quite pleased with it. Opnsense is probably going to be more secure than any consumer router firmware, but you’re going to have to make a bigger upfront investment in hardware. I had never used Opnsense prior to using this system, and the fact that I’m running it on Proxmox is a huge benefit. If I’m ever about to do anything I’m unsure of, I can snapshot the VM in Proxmox. If my router config breaks as a result of my tinkering, I can easily restore from the snapshot.
Thanks for the link, I’ll have to look into running OPNsense on my Proxmox cluster. I’ve been holding off on buying a new server, having a server just for my networking VMs might be a good solution, thanks!
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My two cents: use a “full” computer as your router (with either something like OPNsense or any “regular” linux distro if you don’t need the GUI) and OpenWRT on your access points.
Unless you use the GUI and backup/restore the configuration (as you would with proprietary firmwares), OpenWRT is frankly a pain to configure and deploy. At the moment I’m building custom images for all my devices, but (next time™) I’m gonna ditch all that, get an x86 router and just manually manage OpenWRT on my wifi APs (I only have two and they both have the same relatively straightforward config).
Routers and access points are just computers with network interfaces (there may be level-2-only APs, but honestly I’ve never heard of any)… most probably your issue is that the firmware of your “routers as access points” doesn’t want to be configured as a dumb AP.
Good points. It’s strange to me to think of routers and APs as just computers, or things that can be run off of a mini-PC or some kind of raspberry pi, but it seems like it’s entirely feasible to build up your network with those.
If you’re looking for a more mature networking setup, I would definitely recommend splitting up your router, switch and AP duties into separate devices. It gives you the most flexibility for when you want to tinker or change things.
For a main router setup, I would recommend OpnSense. It’s has a cloud backup feature which allows you to automatically backup the configuration to a Google Drive xml file whenever it is changed.
The XML config file stores all your leases so you don’t have to worry about reassigning DHCP reservations. If you load the config onto a new system, like for an upgrade or if the router hardware fails, usually you just have to change the interface mappings and you’re good to go.
As far as APs/switches, I would recommend Unifi or Mikrotik. Unifi has a fancy dashboard you can use to adopt new equipment and restore/change configs from, but I find Mikrotik easier and simpler to backup and I like that i dont have to host a controller to make config changes.
Yeah, I definitely agree with splitting it up. Until lately, I haven’t been able to justify the cost of replacing my whole setup. But at the rate that my routers/routers-as-APs seem to die (maybe one every 18 months), it’s enough of a nuisance that I’ll just spend some money and do it the “right” way
I took a quick read of the comments and I apologize in advance if this has been suggested already.
I use a self hosted DNS server (AdGuardHome) I was using TechnitiumDNS for a long while, but moved over to the other recently so I could do some more blocking as needed (adult special needs house dweller sometimes needs limited internet). It also acts as a DHCP Server so it takes the role of both the DHCP assignments away from the router. As it so happens, this week, I got to experience the benefit of having this setup live when my main router also went down, I was able to switch to a spare router (My ISP provided one) and all I had to do was turn the DHCP off and optionally point the DNS To my AdGuardHome address, set the SSID’s up and I was in business. All of my devices happily reconnected and grabbed their assigned IP’s.
In short, if you have a spare computer, SBC such as a raspberry PI or whatnot, you can easily host something like that and not have to worry about setting those again.
I’m spoiled now. I prefer ubiquiti equipment for my network, security camera, and even door access.
However, if you prefer completely open source I can recommend opnsense and openwrt. Personally I prefer a single point of configuration… So all ubiquiti for me… It makes it easy to restore a complete network configuration as you are discovering is a pain.
Maybe start with the new cloud gateway max as a router if you are interested.
I have a closet full of old routers (including Linksys), extenders, and switches to be able to handle dead spots. They all sucked. Then I heard about mesh routers when they first came out. Tried two, saw that they worked well, and got a third one. A few months later, a new ISP showed up in our neighborhood with unmetered Gig fiber and I happily drop-kicked Comcast to the curb. It was gratifying that the fiber connection came with a single mesh device of the same brand I already had. Since then, I’ve upgraded to the next-gen routers, and gotten a few smaller ‘wall-wart’ units for extending the range outdoors.
I don’t really have to fuss with configurations like I had to before. It’s amazing how much of a time drain it was to go screw around with settings when a new device came in that didn’t work, or to replace a router when one died. I haven’t had to do anything in years. Every once in a while, I go set up a DHCP reservation but that’s it. The firmware updates auto-install while everyone’s asleep and I get pretty decent bandwidth in places I had constant dropoffs. When I switched out the actual routers to the new gen, the whole thing took 10m and the whole network was down for maybe 2m while the new ones booted up. No end devices had to be modified or restarted.
Where the fiber comes in, there’s a single router node, with two Ethernet ports. One goes to the fiber ONT, the other to a 10-port gig switch where it feeds the rest of wired setups. Elsewhere, the farthest mesh unit has no incoming physical connection, but a small wired switch connected to other wired devices near there. I didn’t have to make any router configuration settings to make this work. Just plugged it all in. Common devices go on the main network, and janky IOT devices (and visitors) go on the guest network.
For external access for self-hosting, you can take a domain name and set up a free Cloudflare tunnel to access your in-home services remotely. Pay Cloudflare a fee and you get extra rules-based access control. The router also has a premium service where it comes with a family bundle of security software. One other thing I like is that the mobile app sends a notification whenever a new device joins the network, so if I see one I don’t recognize, I can block them. Hasn’t happened yet, but if it does, I’ll know to go rotate the wifi passwords.
Anyway, highly recommend mesh routers. I happened to get Eeros (before they were acquired) but there are a few other brands around. Some people don’t like that Amazon bought eero, but they appear to be left to run as an independent outfit. It has been pretty solid so far.
P.S. A friend with a more complicated setup than mine got Ubiquitis. It’s anecdotal, but he recently asked about switching away and I told him pretty much what I’ve written here. YMMV.Edit: checked back with friend. He said he was very happy with his Ubiquiti gear. I mixed up his review from years ago with another friend’s networking setup.
Sounds like we have similar experiences, I’m definitely looking at mesh. I’m tired of having multiple networks across the house! I’m definitely looking at separating IoT and guests to their own VLAN, which I understand Ubiquiti devices are really good at facilitating. Having notifications for new devices is a really nice feature that I never really thought about. Would definitely be nice to have tracking for that
I’m going to suggest something that I don’t see anyone else talking about here. Synology, the company mostly known for the NAS devices, makes some surprisingly good routers as well. I’ve got 2 of their RT2600ac and 3 of their MR220AC mesh units. Their configuration software is unlike anything I’ve used by any other brand. It a web based interface that looks like a variant of desktop linux. Configuring it feels like configuring an actual computer.
I had originally purchased these for my business, an esports center, but after the business closed a few years ago I kept the hardware and used them in my home. They are so much better than any other consumer networking hardware I’ve tried from DLink, Linksys, and Asus.
They have newer models out that support AX wifi. But I haven’t felt the need to upgrade yet. A few notes though. Their hardware does not necessarily support every cutting edge feature. No wifi 7 as far as I know for instance. They seem to sit about 2-3 years behind the absolute latest, but the trade off seems to be stability and reliability.
In my home, I have every unit physically hardwired back to my server rack in my basement. So while it does support mesh over wifi, I’ve opted to run ethernet to every room in my house. My general rule is anything that can be wired, should be wired. We even have a disconnected shed/workshop which I trenched and buried a cable out to so that I’d have a wired access point out there.
I rarely see anyone mention Synology’s routers, but I think they are worth consideration.
Unifi gear is super great value-wise. Their support is lacking, but their equipment is pretty easy to deal with.
UCG is great and cheap.
UDM Pro is more flexible / future proof but also more expensive. (you get POE, and access to the rest of their suite, but that access also comes with some hardware lockin)
They don’t do custom DNS, so a couple of PIE holes or a DNS service are prudent.
Agreed. After 4 years on PFSense, and that becoming basically a second job, I pulled the trigger and got a Unifi USG-Ultra, and my life is now all rainbows and unicorns.
That’s seems to be what I keep coming back to over the past few days. The UCG Ultra looks perfect for what I need - I don’t want a router and AP in one device, nor do I need any of the security software that other Unifi devices seem to have - I run those separately. I think the UI and dashboards are what are really pushing me towards Ubiquiti, they look really great for displaying the info I want to see
It is pretty intuitive and just works. I do have an issue where I can’t access my services on ProxMox and UnRaid via URL (only via IP) when I have the work profile enabled in that network from the local network (works via internet from outside or through a VPN though), but it does work is the profile is disabled. Other than that, everything just works and is super easy to setup and configure.
This is what I did after running consumer Linksys and ASUS routers, including with OpenWRT.
I moved to a Unifi setup and haven’t had any issues. I can manage it remotely if I need to, like another household member needs something changed or fixed. I’ve never had to restart it to fix an issue, it just works.
Easy upgrades without having to replace the entire setup and move settings over manually. Especially easy wireless upgrades, almost just plug and play replacing the old access point antenna.
And if you need just a small setup and you run a home server you can run the management software on there instead of something like their dedicated Cloud Key device.
hell it’s almost worth it just for the Suricata IDS/Blocking :)
BTW you CAN do DNS in a unifi gateway. It just requires making dnsmasq entries through shell. Perfect solution? No. But it gets you there with no additional hardware.
I run Opnsense on a Proxmox VM (I followed this guide). I’m quite pleased with it. Opnsense is probably going to be more secure than any consumer router firmware, but you’re going to have to make a bigger upfront investment in hardware. I had never used Opnsense prior to using this system, and the fact that I’m running it on Proxmox is a huge benefit. If I’m ever about to do anything I’m unsure of, I can snapshot the VM in Proxmox. If my router config breaks as a result of my tinkering, I can easily restore from the snapshot.
Thanks for the link, I’ll have to look into running OPNsense on my Proxmox cluster. I’ve been holding off on buying a new server, having a server just for my networking VMs might be a good solution, thanks!