A Seattle-based appellate judge ruled that the practice does not meet the threshold for an illegal privacy violation under state law, handing a big win to automakers Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and General Motors.
“In order to claim damages, there must be a breach in the duty of the defendant towards the plaintiff, which results in an injury”
Basically the judge is saying the plaintiff didn’t establish the basic foundation of a tort case. He’s not saying this isn’t wrong, he’s saying they didn’t present the case in a way that proves it.
It’s not enough to say “you shouldn’t be doing this”–even if that’s true.
Take a page from the conservative/GOP playbook and just find an activity judge who will wholesale accept your fabricated claim and provide a favorite judgement.
Disappointing result but this seems like something for the legislature to fix. Courts aren’t always the solution, sometimes you have to just fix the damn law.
Amendment 4 does not apply to the practices of a private company. That’s what privacy legislation is intended to protect against. Amendment 4 only applies to spying done by the State.
If the purpose of collecting the data by private companies is to somehow make money, do you think that sharing this data, or conclusions based on this data, somehow manages to exclude access of governmental agencies? I’ve never gotten the impression that CIA/NSA would ever willingly play nice.
Government agencies paying private companies for your information, or even just asking for it in exchange for something or nothing is legal. That’s because nothing was searched unreasonably (because consent was given by the controller of the information) nor was anything seized against the controller’s will.
You are not in the picture. The information might be about you but you don’t control the information, the car company does. From a legal standpoint, you are irrelevant for the purposes of Amendment 4 protection.
Amendment 4 protects the controller of the information from Government seizure but does not protect the subject of that information. Privacy laws are what are intended to protect the subjects of information. There is some overlap of course. For example, your computer has lots of information about you and what you did in the past. You would be both the subject of the information and the controller (since it’s stored on your computer).
Please remember, I am describing what the law is, not what it should be.
If you want to call it that, you can. The State spying by proxy (paying or asking companies for info) is legal and not prohibited by Amendment 4. Amendment 4 does not protect the subjects of information. It protects the controllers of information (which would be the car company).
Just like with the first amendment, it doesn’t apply to private companies. The point is to prevent the government from passing tyrannical laws, it was never meant to district the activity of private citizens.
auto manufacturers had violated Washington state’s privacy laws by using vehicles’ on-board infotainment systems to record and intercept customers’ private text messages and mobile phone call logs.
But the appellate judge ruled Tuesday that the interception and recording of mobile phone activity did not meet the Washington Privacy Act’s standard
Privacy is a fundamental human right.
Just not in Usa, as it seems. Here it is indeed the law that needs to be fixed.
I’ve been having dreams lately where I’m driving around in my old 1987 thunderbird that I got in 2003 when I was in high school. It wasn’t a great car and I was hoping my next vehicle could be electric, but maybe that’s a sign I need to be going backwards.
Well… fuck. More reason to not buy newer cars. At least you Americans are lucky. You can drive a dinosaur if it met with regulations. You technically don’t have to buy new cars… ever.
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I mean ok but the fact that your car is spying on you has to break a thousand big tech nda’s
Yet another item on my list of why I’ll never buy a modern car.
Obvious next question: how’s the privacy policy on 3rd party stereo makers like Pioneer, Kenwood, Alpine, Jensen, etc.?
Why risk it? Build your own with a raspberry pi and a touchscreen.
Should be better since they usually don’t have an uplink capability. But be real careful of any model that has Internet for any reason.
Isn’t this just a basic legal concept?
“In order to claim damages, there must be a breach in the duty of the defendant towards the plaintiff, which results in an injury”
Basically the judge is saying the plaintiff didn’t establish the basic foundation of a tort case. He’s not saying this isn’t wrong, he’s saying they didn’t present the case in a way that proves it.
It’s not enough to say “you shouldn’t be doing this”–even if that’s true.
Take a page from the conservative/GOP playbook and just find an activity judge who will wholesale accept your fabricated claim and provide a favorite judgement.
Sure except under this logic there’s no injury to someone peering through your windows. After all they didn’t do anything else…
One of these companies needs to be beached to prove damages, I guess.
Well I am still so happy that I decided specifically to get a newish car that doesn’t have a touchscreen or any of this nonsense.
What model did you buy? It is rare to see one these days that doesn’t have all this nonsense.
2015 Buick encore. I did remove the fuse for the OnStar satellite nonsense though.
Thank you for sharing the information!
Disappointing result but this seems like something for the legislature to fix. Courts aren’t always the solution, sometimes you have to just fix the damn law.
This is supposed to be covered by the fourthamendment but that’s been meaningless for over 20 years now
Amendment 4 does not apply to the practices of a private company. That’s what privacy legislation is intended to protect against. Amendment 4 only applies to spying done by the State.
The state is just spying via a proxy.
Do you actually literally believe that (in the context of law), or is that just rhetorical speech?
If the purpose of collecting the data by private companies is to somehow make money, do you think that sharing this data, or conclusions based on this data, somehow manages to exclude access of governmental agencies? I’ve never gotten the impression that CIA/NSA would ever willingly play nice.
This is getting off-track again—
Government agencies paying private companies for your information, or even just asking for it in exchange for something or nothing is legal. That’s because nothing was searched unreasonably (because consent was given by the controller of the information) nor was anything seized against the controller’s will.
You are not in the picture. The information might be about you but you don’t control the information, the car company does. From a legal standpoint, you are irrelevant for the purposes of Amendment 4 protection.
Amendment 4 protects the controller of the information from Government seizure but does not protect the subject of that information. Privacy laws are what are intended to protect the subjects of information. There is some overlap of course. For example, your computer has lots of information about you and what you did in the past. You would be both the subject of the information and the controller (since it’s stored on your computer).
Please remember, I am describing what the law is, not what it should be.
It’s literally what’s happening.
Texas used the same concept to empower private people to sue abortion providers and receivers under civil law since they couldn’t do it criminally.
The country as a whole has done it for a long time with cellphone data, the five eyes alliance, etc.
They have access to information they’re barred from getting directly themselves, and they get it from private companies. Spying by proxy.
What
If you want to call it that, you can. The State spying by proxy (paying or asking companies for info) is legal and not prohibited by Amendment 4. Amendment 4 does not protect the subjects of information. It protects the controllers of information (which would be the car company).
Just like with the first amendment, it doesn’t apply to private companies. The point is to prevent the government from passing tyrannical laws, it was never meant to district the activity of private citizens.
Very true.
Unfortunately corporations are becoming the government, without checks or constraints.
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So ask the judge why car companies want to track judges?
Privacy is a fundamental human right.
Just not in Usa, as it seems. Here it is indeed the law that needs to be fixed.
https://www.humanrightscareers.com/issues/is-privacy-a-human-right/
This is why I keep my 2006 toyota in tip top shape. I will drive that car as long as I possibly can.
Really considering taking out a loan just to fix an old car instead of buying new.
I’ve been having dreams lately where I’m driving around in my old 1987 thunderbird that I got in 2003 when I was in high school. It wasn’t a great car and I was hoping my next vehicle could be electric, but maybe that’s a sign I need to be going backwards.
I wonder how long until we get to jailbreak our cars just so those cock suckers can’t spy on us.
Technically you already can. I just hope you have extensive programming knowledge because you’re going to have to take an axe to the existing code.
May be able to find and remove whatever it’s using as a cellphone antenna.
Sorry your car just stopped working for “safety” reasons.
If that were the case, there would be traffic jams in tunnels across the country due to disabled cars.
Nah, it just detects the presence of the hardware.
But not the faraday cage around the telematics unit.
Yeah I’m not saying it’s impossible. Just not easy.
Well… fuck. More reason to not buy newer cars. At least you Americans are lucky. You can drive a dinosaur if it met with regulations. You technically don’t have to buy new cars… ever.